WP 76 | How to Confront Others with Love with Scott Waters

Written By James Marland

Mastering the Art of Confrontation with Compassion in Leadership

Navigating the complex dynamics of leadership and confrontation is often daunting. Particularly within the realms of small business ownership and group practices, striking a balance between maintaining healthy boundaries and addressing issues directly – all while exemplifying compassion and understanding – can feel like walking a tightrope. My recent conversation with Scott Waters on the Wise Practice Podcast shed considerable light on these challenges and offered profound insights into confronting others with love in a leadership role. 

The Complex Web of Leadership and Confrontation

Leadership is not just about guiding a team towards common goals but also about cultivating an environment where growth, both personal and professional, is encouraged and supported. In the context of confrontation – a scenario often coated with negative connotations – it becomes imperative for leaders to adopt a stance that nurtures rather than alienates. This conversation with Scott delved into how leaders can approach confrontations not as adversarial encounters but as opportunities for deepening understanding and fostering mutual respect.

Understanding the Other: A Foundation for Compassionate Confrontation

One of the pivotal themes that emerged from our discussion was the aspect of understanding. Stephen Covey's adage, "If you want to be understood, first seek to understand," beautifully encapsulates this outlook. Initiating a confrontation with the intent to understand the perspective and feelings of the other party can significantly diffuse potential defensiveness. It opens up a dialogic space where true listening can occur, laying down a foundation for reciprocal respect and empathy.

The Role of Boundaries in Confrontation

Boundaries are an indispensable element of healthy confrontations. As Scott rightly pointed out, "boundaries are a requirement to love well, and there's not loving well without boundaries." In both personal and professional domains, boundaries articulate our values and expectations. They serve as guidelines that inform others how to engage with us in a manner that respects our individuality and principles. Leaders must therefore be adept at setting clear, fair boundaries and communicating them effectively. It's through this clarity that mutual understanding and respect can flourish.

Confronting with Emotional Intelligence

A crucial facet of leadership and confrontation that our conversation highlighted was the importance of emotional intelligence. It involves recognizing one's own emotions and those of the team, managing emotions constructively, and navigating interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically. Emotional intelligence allows leaders to approach confrontations not as battles to be won but as opportunities for growth and understanding. It is about knowing when to push back and when to offer support, about discerning the subtle nuances of team dynamics, and about navigating these complexities with a heart full of compassion and a mind aimed at resolution.

Conclusion: Leading with Love and Strength

Confrontation, when approached from a place of love, understanding, and clear boundaries, can transform potentially contentious moments into opportunities for growth and deep connection. Leadership, in essence, is about nurturing an environment where people feel valued, understood, and respected. It's about leading not just with authority but with empathy, not just with a firm hand but with an open heart. In the journey of leadership, let us remember that every confrontation, every challenge, is a step towards creating stronger, more cohesive teams bound by mutual respect and shared vision.

Listeners and readers seeking to delve deeper into the wisdom shared in the podcast can access the full conversation on the Wise Practice Podcast, available on major podcast platforms. Join us as we explore more themes on leadership, personal development, and integrating faith-based practices into the realm of professional growth.

How Can Guto Hep Save Time with Payroll Processing?

Gusto is an excellent payroll processing option for therapist group practice owners due to its intuitive interface and comprehensive support. It simplifies the complex task of managing payroll, taxes, and employee benefits, which is particularly beneficial for practices with multi-state employees. Gusto’s paperless onboarding streamlines the hiring process, and its user-friendly software makes it easy for administrative staff to run payroll efficiently. Additionally, Gusto’s responsive phone support ensures that questions or issues are promptly addressed, allowing therapists to focus more on their clients and less on administrative tasks. If you sign up using this link, you will get a $100 sign-on bonus! 

Register For the Webinar

Guest Resources

Links and Resources

Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio.

  • WP 76 How to Confront Others with Love with Scott Waters

    ===

    ​

    [00:00:00] Whitney Owens:

    [00:00:05] Whitney Owens: Hey, hey, welcome back to the wise practice podcast. You're Shirley Whitney Owens hanging out with you here today. I just completed this interview

    [00:00:13] Whitney Owens: waters. He's been a friend of mine for years, journey of faith and trusting God. And there are some people I just love their voice and Scott's one of them. So I enjoy talking to him for multiple reasons. Before we get into this episode, I wanted to offer you a freebie. So, I'm going to be hosting a webinar on April 29th.

    [00:00:32] Whitney Owens: That's a Monday afternoon afternoon for me 2 o'clock Eastern time. And that webinar is going to be on how to make faith based decisions in your practice. It is a challenge as practice owners anyway, to make decisions, but then when we're trying to integrate our faith and how does that dictate our position, our decisions, what kind of things should we be considering when we're making those decisions?

    [00:00:55] Whitney Owens: That's what we're going to be focusing on in that webinar. So that's totally free. You can head to the show notes, register, or you can head to my website, wise practice consulting. com hit the events, and there you'll get access to that webinar on how to make faith based decisions in your private practice.

    [00:01:11] Whitney Owens: So that's going to be Monday, the 29th of April at two o'clock. All right. So we're going to go ahead and get into the episode here today with my friend Scott, and we're going to talk about how to confront people in a place of love.

    [00:01:52] Whitney Owens: Welcome to the wise practice podcast. Excited to be hanging out with my friend Scott here today. So let me tell you about Scott waters. And then we're going to jump into this episode. He is a small group practice center since 2020. He's an adjunct professor for Bushnell university, a certified Enneagram coach husband for almost 17 years, father of an 11 year old daughter and eight year old son.

    [00:02:39] Whitney Owens: He enjoys long walks in the woods. Staying active in cooking at one point, he did make his own beer, but his true affection is for bourbon and woodworking. Thank you for coming on the show. My pleasure. Nice bio. I actually didn't know you were a professor.

    [00:02:58] Scott Waters: Yeah, I started that, um, just over a year ago and it was, uh, kind of, uh, something I didn't know.

    [00:03:07] Scott Waters: I, I thought about teaching before, but it was like, uh, something I, I wanted to pursue. And so it was, Oh, what do you teach? Currently, I'm just doing super group supervision for the master's

    [00:03:22] Whitney Owens: program. Nice. Great. Well, hopefully you can grab some really good therapists out of that, you know, for your practice.

    [00:03:30] Whitney Owens: It's kind of

    [00:03:31] Scott Waters: a nursery campaign for my practice. Right.

    [00:03:34] Whitney Owens: That's right. That's awesome. Wonderful. Well, I'm looking forward to our episode today. So we're going to talk about confrontation and how we do that in a loving and kind way. Yeah. Um, but before we kind of jump into that, can you share some more about kind of about your practice, where you're located, just so people can get to know you?

    [00:03:51] Whitney Owens: Yeah.

    [00:03:52] Scott Waters: So my practice, it's me and two therapists. I registered associates, so they're pre licensed professionals. We are in Springfield, Oregon on the West coast. Um, we love our rain here and we focus on their niche. What we are known for is, uh, therapists who are Christian community. And so that's, um, not super popular here on the West coast.

    [00:04:23] Scott Waters: Um, but it's definitely, uh, important. Offering and so, um, yeah, one of my business coaches was like, you need to hammer down on the niche of Christian counseling. That's what we're doing.

    [00:04:40] Whitney Owens: Love it. You know, and I was trying to remember when we met. I don't remember what year it was, but I'm going to go with 2019, 2020.

    [00:04:50] Whitney Owens: So

    [00:04:50] Scott Waters: I, well, we were both a part of next level practice. No,

    [00:04:57] Whitney Owens: I never was in next level practice actually. You okay. Believe it or not.

    [00:05:01] Scott Waters: Yeah. Yeah. I, we started a mastermind in 19 or 2019. It was 2019. Okay. It was one of your first mastermind groups. You were? Mm-Hmm. . And so that's when we started, and then three year encouragement.

    [00:05:15] Scott Waters: I started a group in the middle of a pandemic, which was exciting and crazy.

    [00:05:22] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I always try to remember when did that happen? And it all feels like a haze now because COVID happened when we were in that group. Yeah. Yes. Cool. Cool. I know. I know. Well, all right. So let's talk about this topic.

    [00:05:37] Whitney Owens: Cause when you proposed it to me, I was like, that's really interesting and I need that in my life. So.

    [00:05:43] Scott Waters: Yeah. Lovely. Yeah. The topic of confrontation. As a part of love, I think is missed often, whether it's in church circles or even in, like, you know, the grad program for training therapists. We, you know, the biblical term is admonish is to speak truth out of a relationship of love.

    [00:06:11] Scott Waters: Right. And, uh, I think there's just so many applications for how this is important and a necessary part of just maturity and growth as a leader, uh, both in life and business. Yeah.

    [00:06:28] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So I definitely have questions for you here. So when we think about confrontation, like how do I do that? Like, where's my balance here?

    [00:06:38] Whitney Owens: Because I feel like it's hard for me to know, am I speaking too harshly? Is that speaking in love? Should I, do I not speak enough? Mm-Hmm. And I also feel like everyone's so different.

    [00:06:49] Scott Waters: Yeah. It, I mean, so you're versed in the Enneagram, so Yes. Same. I'll say this. Everyone receives feedback differently. Mm-Hmm.

    [00:06:59] Scott Waters: And that's part of the skill. Art, I would say, of being a leader is knowing your audience as how you communicate. Um, so, uh, you're fairly direct, and you speak things very acutely, like concise, I would say, in my experience of you. And, uh, I try to do the same, uh, but it has to be rooted in the relationship and out of the context of the relationship.

    [00:07:30] Scott Waters: So I'm using Enneagram 2. I am very focused on maintaining relationship and coming out of my history of people pleasing, like I am very sensitive to that. And so that that's structured kind of this, this practice of confrontation in love, um, in that you got to match the people you're talking to, right? If you were talking to an Enneagram eight, you would talk very directly concise.

    [00:08:00] Scott Waters: You wouldn't hold anything back and they would take that as loving and kind. If you talk to an Enneagram nine the same way, they're going to shrink into a hole and be offended. Right. And so kind of knowing your audience is important. The other aspect of that is making sure that you have. Awareness of where your authority is in the relationship and the level of relationship, right?

    [00:08:31] Scott Waters: So in my home, I have a level of authority that I can just look at my kids and they like You know, it's still the fear of God in them right like those dad vibes but With peers or people outside my household, they, we don't have a relationship necessarily for me to speak with authority or to confront them outside of maintaining my own boundaries.

    [00:09:02] Scott Waters: And so it's kind of relationally driven in terms of the level of confrontation you offer, but you can always do it kindly. Right. And boundaries innately require advocating for personal and relational health. And so if you don't really have a relationship with the person, you don't owe them anything but directness.

    [00:09:27] Scott Waters: Like, you don't have to explain yourself. You don't have to define anything for them. Like you can just speak truth as you need it to be spoken, right? It takes a little more nuance when it's an employee, cause you have a power over them, you have the ability to fire them. And so you need to make sure that they feel cared for while being given direction.

    [00:09:49] Scott Waters: And ultimately you can't butter their ego too much to. How about social lubricant, but they do need to respect your authority in that position, um, through the context of knowing you care.

    [00:10:09] Whitney Owens: You brought up so many good points. I mean, this, the concept of the Enneagram of course, speaks to me and every employee takes the Enneagram at my practice so that we can understand how to communicate.

    [00:10:19] Whitney Owens: And yeah, that was when I really came to understand AIDS, because when COVID happened, my Enneagram 8 therapist came at me hard and I was so insecure and I was like, Oh my gosh, she hates me. I'm a terrible boss. Now when I realized, Oh, she's an aid. This is how she loves me. By being confrontational and if I confront her back strongly, she will respect me and we will, you know, have a loving relationship.

    [00:10:44] Whitney Owens: So that's what I did. But no one else could have handled that level of intensity.

    [00:10:48] Scott Waters: It's amazing what we, so you learned about yourself, right? You learned like, Oh, like I can dish that right back. And that is not only appropriate, but like what she needs, she or he, right? Right. This was a she, but yeah, she needed you to match her intensity to show love, right?

    [00:11:14] Scott Waters: So you learned that in that situation and it's, I'm assuming it turned out well. Actually,

    [00:11:19] Whitney Owens: yes, it changed everything after that. Tell me more about that. Well, because the eight learned that I can take authority. She wanted me to be strong, but I wasn't being that until that moment. She'd already been working for me for a year or 2 at that point.

    [00:11:35] Whitney Owens: Yeah, of course. Then I approached my enneagram 1 and called her out in front of people and it didn't go well. Yeah, so I had to make some apologies for that. We can't always get it right.

    [00:11:46] Scott Waters: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the importance of also systems. Right? Mm hmm. Feedback, knowing when to address things publicly versus privately.

    [00:11:58] Scott Waters: Just learning some of those nuances of healthy confrontation and to not promote shame, but increase awareness.

    [00:12:05] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I think another thing I struggle with and we'd love to get your feedback on is communicating not, I don't mean virtually, but like through text through email, like that gets really dicey and it's like, when do you sit down with them in person?

    [00:12:21] Whitney Owens: When do you pick up the phone? When do you just directly say, Hey. I'm not okay with this. You just say it in your message, you know, and not that you're trying to be mean or hurtful. You're really just trying to be direct and honest.

    [00:12:35] Scott Waters: I think so. You're talking about like with work specifically employees talking

    [00:12:42] Whitney Owens: specifically about work.

    [00:12:43] Whitney Owens: Yeah.

    [00:12:44] Scott Waters: Okay. Yeah. So with. Employees, it's like you, you have to be direct and you have to be very clear, right? One of the biggest lessons I learned early in my, uh, root practice launch was that I was not very clear with some of my employees and it created this disconnect of expectations and. The status of our relationship, um, it got, I'll give you a little example.

    [00:13:15] Scott Waters: Uh, I wasn't really good at giving feedback or process, like I didn't do this confrontation well. So this is kind of where it burst for me was, uh, I was disconnecting with my employee. He wasn't doing a very good job, like listening to what I wanted or getting the feedback that I was doing in supervision.

    [00:13:37] Scott Waters: And so, like we were joking around. And around Christmas and he sent me a text or he thought we had this level of relationship that we didn't. And he was like, Oh, this other private practice I'm part time at giving bonuses. Like, wouldn't that be nice? Like super passive aggressive. And I was like, actually, I'm concerned about your livelihood here.

    [00:14:03] Scott Waters: And he was like, what? Like just caught him off guard. And I was like, Oh, I haven't been as clear or direct, like spelled things out for him. As much as I should have, otherwise he would have known, like, this was completely inappropriate to A, I mean, that's just poor business etiquette, if you're wanting a bonus or a raise, like, that's, you know, due to her text message.

    [00:14:27] Scott Waters: It, it told me that, whether it's text message or any communication, I have to be extremely clear and spell everything out, right? And it, in terms of, I work with a lot of couples and I say, if there is anything emotionally loaded, right, you're not just communicating about loading the dishwasher, picking up kids or any of that stuff.

    [00:14:54] Scott Waters: It needs to be a conversation. That's a good point. So I guess in terms of filter, I would encourage you, like when you have that. Like, if you feel like it's emotionally for them or for you, like there's a little baggage, something going on inside of you, don't do it via text, like have that in person conversation and confront gently, kindly, but state your boundary and expectation and see where they're at with it.

    [00:15:31] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I think that's great. And, and, and like you said, it goes back to, there are some of my employees. I could easily text them something directly and I know they got it, especially if I've had them for a while. But the ones that are newer or younger in the field, like they need a little bit more compassion, hand, not compassion.

    [00:15:51] Whitney Owens: I shouldn't say that, but handholding and Yeah. Kind of being with them through the process and helping them. Um, even my intern the other day, like this email came through, this situation came up. I was really upset with somebody else, but the email came through and I wanted everyone on the same page. So the intern was the one that looked like she made the mistake, even though it was someone else who told her something that was wrong.

    [00:16:11] Whitney Owens: So she just did what she was told. I can't blame her for that, but I didn't want to go to her and then go to that person and then go to the office manager. What a pain for me. So it's like, I'm going to send one email. All of us and say, remember, here's the policy. Like it doesn't need to be emotional. This is what the policy is.

    [00:16:29] Whitney Owens: This is what I expect out of everyone to follow. And that's what I did, but I definitely followed up with her later. Cause evidently as soon as she got the email, she was like, and I did something wrong. And you know, she went to the office manager and to make sure everything was okay. And I was like, you're fine.

    [00:16:43] Whitney Owens: I just wanted everyone on the same. You know, once I explained it to her, she was totally fine. And I probably should have like gone to her before I sent the email. Right. To like bring her that comfort, but you don't ever know, like. You can just do the best you can. You don't have, they're going to respond.

    [00:16:56] Scott Waters: Sure. And I think it goes back to what you just said, like the level of relationship, right? If you have a good rapport, you've had alliance bill with this person or a teammate, like you can be very direct and it's not taken personally. If it's a new relationship, if you're just starting, if there's not that security there, like they know, like, and trust your good intentions as a boss, employer, whatever, like.

    [00:17:24] Scott Waters: You got to massage it a little bit more, not tiptoe through the tools, but just assure the relationship while you do the confrontation.

    [00:17:33] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I'm looking for recommendations when it is emotionally charged, because there are going to be times as a boss, I mean, times in other relationships too, but specifically if we're talking about work here, where we are offended by our team members, right?

    [00:17:47] Whitney Owens: They quit on us. They do something that we've told them not to do. And so we do have emotions. It's hard to just. I understand the concept of like sitting with it and letting it calm down because that definitely can help. But sometimes you're still going to have them. So what would you say about that?

    [00:18:03] Scott Waters: Yeah, I would say that, you know, there's Stephen Covey in his book, 7 habits that have affected people talks about if you want to be understood, you have to 1st understand. And so I kind of take that to heart in terms of. My approach to feedback or confrontation with an employee to say, if you know, it's emotionally loaded the best thing I can do to disarm and not enter into defensive posture is to create understanding of their position, right?

    [00:18:39] Scott Waters: What is their issue? What are they feeling? Um, what's their understanding of the policy they got across this boundary that was violated, whatever it is, and. Just kind of get that feedback. And after I've done that, they feel seen and heard and hopefully cared for. And this is the leveraging of our power dynamic too.

    [00:19:01] Scott Waters: Right. I am responsible for the aspect of this relationship, and I can invite them into that by modeling good understanding, clear communication. And so, after doing that understanding for them, with them, the active listening with empathy, and you can say, okay, here's something I need you to know about this interaction and how it impacted me.

    [00:19:23] Scott Waters: And they're in a much softer heart place to receive what you have to say, even if they're still emotionally charged, right? And we can't win them all. So, you know, someone is just better. They're in their own space. They haven't done their own therapeutic work to be emotionally mature, right? Like we, we don't have influence over that, but we can say like, see you later.

    [00:19:47] Scott Waters: Right. And sometimes that's just a statement. But we can't. We're not being soft and, and kind, we're gonna be kind, but we're gonna be very direct about it. Right. We don't need to give that understanding because we know we're just making a statement for HR and legal reasons, as opposed to salvaging the relationship.

    [00:20:11] Scott Waters: Sure.

    [00:20:13] Whitney Owens: I laughed. I had an intern one time who told me that I kept her up all night because she knew we were going to have a conversation the next day. I was like, I didn't keep you up all night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was fascinating, but yeah, you kind of have to separate yourself from that stuff. Cause people will put their stuff on you like that.

    [00:20:33] Whitney Owens: Yeah. 100

    [00:20:34] Scott Waters: percent and it's, it's our responsibility as leaders to help them own what's theirs to own. Yeah. Gently, kindly, with compassion, also setting a firm boundary of like, what are you going to do about that? How are you going to handle your, like, I'm not, I can't be responsible for your anxiety. Is there a way I can communicate differently and say like, Hey, you're gonna have a meeting about whatever, be a little more informative.

    [00:21:02] Scott Waters: So you're not guessing. Sure. I can do that. But you got to be in control and manage yourself, right?

    [00:21:12] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So I'm guessing another important part of this conversation is boundaries. Yeah.

    [00:21:18] Scott Waters: Yes. Boundaries are a requirement to love well, and there's not loving well without boundaries. Right? Mm hmm. So, this is personal life, you know, marriage, parenting, friendship, finances, whatever.

    [00:21:34] Scott Waters: It all requires some level of boundaries to say what we are about, right? And then out of that comes, I would say, some level of stewardship, which it requires a pre commitment. Which is like an agreement with yourself and then shared commitment, which is non negotiable ways of being that create the care possible for whatever we're stewarding.

    [00:22:02] Scott Waters: It

    [00:22:06] Whitney Owens: sounds great.

    [00:22:11] James Marland: Hey there listeners. Quick pause on our show to talk about something that can truly streamline your business operations. Gusto. Gusto is the payroll processor, Whitney uses and loves in her group practice. It saves her so much time. If you're a small business owner, you know, managing payroll can be a headache.

    [00:22:32] James Marland: That's where Gusto comes in. Gusto is not just a payroll processor. It's a full service solution that handles all the nitty gritty aspects of payroll taxes and HR. Imagine, having more time to focus on your growing business because Gusto is taking care of employee onboarding time-tracking and ensuring all your tax filings are spot on and the best part. Gusto is designed with simplicity in mind.

    [00:23:03] James Marland: It's easy to set up and even easier to use. No more payroll stress Gusto has got your back. So why wait. Join the thousands of businesses that have switched to Gusto. And for our listeners, there's a special offer. Sign up today and get a hundred dollars sign-on bonus just for signing up. Go to the link in the show notes and get started.

    [00:23:28] Whitney Owens: What is this? Let's talk about what does this look like? Practically.

    [00:23:36] Scott Waters: Practically. Yeah. It's being. I think part of it is self work, like owning, having that discussion, right, knowing, so let's talk about marriage, what is our agreements, what are we, what's healthy boundaries, what do you consider inappropriate behavior relationally with The opposite sex, or someone who you're attracted to.

    [00:24:04] Scott Waters: What does, um, what does self care look like in this context? How are we caring for each other's self care, but really letting them own what they're doing for self care, right? I can't. Oh, I have some extreme introvert. I can't tell her that, um, like what she needs to do for herself. I can't make her take alone time I can provide that I can be mindful of it But if she doesn't ask for it, I think that's on her.

    [00:24:39] Scott Waters: Mm hmm Similar to me being an extrovert and saying hey, I need to go out with the guys or I need to go do something This weekend or whatever, like, that's on me, um, to own my boundaries and know myself well enough to know what I need and that requires proactivity versus reactivity. Right? So much of life, especially I'd say in America is reactive.

    [00:25:04] Scott Waters: It's very consumer driven of just like. Stimulus, response, stimulus, response, and it's not like, it's not informed consent based on values or beliefs. And so, you got to know yourself to know what boundaries you need and how to do that well. Solely being responsible for yourself and then caring about someone else.

    [00:25:31] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Yeah, I'm thinking about employees and boundaries with them. And this might sound pretty arrogant when I'm about to say, um, but I, I think I know their boundaries better than they do. Maybe. Okay. I'll give you an example. Yeah. I got examples. So this is really common for my Enneagram two therapists when they see me, okay, I'm speaking to you.

    [00:25:57] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, you don't work for me, but yeah. Okay. So, so they see the need for the practice. Like they love water's edge counseling. They want us to be the best we can be in the community and they will bend over backwards to make that happen. Right. Which is great. That's the kind of employee you want, but then they get burned out, overwhelmed and reactive.

    [00:26:17] Whitney Owens: Right. So it's, so it's one day saying I could take on that client. I know somebody needs to see that client, blah, blah, blah. Oh, I'll work, you know, a late hour to help the practice, to help this client. And then the next day I can't take any more clients. Don't do any of that, you know, like freaking out. And I'm like, no, one's happy like this.

    [00:26:36] Whitney Owens: And so I kind of started learning or like another one of my employees would. Change her hours to accommodate for the needs of the practice. And I love that about her, but then I always was like, Oh, like, she's just going to be changing it three months later. Cause she's not going to be happy because she's not going to enjoy working evenings.

    [00:26:53] Whitney Owens: So at first I would just let them do whatever they wanted thinking, okay, this is what they're asking for. If I can accommodate, I'm going to accommodate. Now I've started being like. Are you sure that's what you want? Let's discuss why you're not going to be happy three months from now. So it's kind of like, I feel like I know that boundary better than they do.

    [00:27:11] Whitney Owens: Sure.

    [00:27:12] Scott Waters: Well, that's, I think that part of the leadership is helping them grow in that understanding and you're completely on point, you know, using any gram too. It's like, yes, yes, yes. And I have to learn the power of no learn what actually brings health to me as opposed to like. Just serving, serving, serving, and falling into the trap that my needs are magically going to be met by doing all these things.

    [00:27:41] Scott Waters: Like, you're talking about an employment relationship where it's like, they're going to keep going and going until they feel like crap and then shut down and then have that reaction. And so for you to steward them to emotional maturity and say, hey, let's talk about work life balance, where do you need to end in this?

    [00:28:04] Scott Waters: Work so that you can be sustainable. Cause I don't want you to just to burn up like a flame. Like I want you to be a slow and steady coals in this practice, just continuing to give off that warmth, heat, love that you do so naturally as a two, right? Like you're going to help them embody who they need to be to serve your purposes and theirs, right?

    [00:28:29] Scott Waters: As a boss, you, you make sure to, that they're informed also of what their agreements to Your practice and not just their own life, right. Or their unhealth of serving unhealthfully.

    [00:28:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's so good. And I love the way you said that about the fire and kind of slow fire instead of quick back and forth.

    [00:28:57] Whitney Owens: And especially a lot of the new therapists, we have to kind of work on that with them as they're like learning and, and even the way they care for their clients. And I had a supervisor really teach this when I was in grad school. Boundaries is how we love our clients. Yeah,

    [00:29:11] Scott Waters: 100%. It's the way we maintain ethics.

    [00:29:15] Scott Waters: It's good client care. It's profitability, right? We enforce a no show policy because we ultimately care for them and have to sustain our business. And if we're not sustaining our business, we can't care for them. Right. Mm-Hmm. . We're having too many sliding scale spots, right? Like we're not stewarding our end goal of profitability, so we burn out.

    [00:29:43] Scott Waters: Yeah. We wanna be kind and we don't love our family,

    [00:29:45] Whitney Owens: right? Yeah. Our family needs that money, right? Mm-Hmm. , anything else you have there about kind of stewardship, love, boundaries?

    [00:29:57] Scott Waters: I'd say just. You know, out of my personal experience, don't be afraid to disappoint people because, uh, if you continue disappointing yourself, you're inevitably going to disappoint them.

    [00:30:14] Scott Waters: And so, holding healthy boundaries and having that confrontation in the beginning is actually less messy than procrastinating because you don't want to offend somebody. Oh, that's

    [00:30:26] Whitney Owens: good. Yeah. I definitely had that struggle at the beginning of a group practice. Yeah. Yeah. I gave everybody everything they wanted.

    [00:30:36] Whitney Owens: I didn't know how to set any limits. You know, I just wanted everyone to be happy and it was really to the detriment of me and the business and the, and the clients. Yeah. Right, you know, and so I definitely had to make some changes on that.

    [00:30:50] Scott Waters: Yeah, they weren't getting the best care and they didn't feel even as Supported like in the way they needed to be.

    [00:30:57] Scott Waters: Mm hmm, which you as the boss knows better, right?

    [00:31:03] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Yeah, but I think that's that that idea. Don't be afraid to disappoint people that's that's pretty important right there and Yeah. That was a big part of growing as a leader for sure. 100%. Yeah. Cool. Well, this has been a great conversation. Important.

    [00:31:22] Whitney Owens: Difficult. Difficult, but important to have, especially as we consider how we exemplify Christ and how we love people.

    [00:31:31] Scott Waters: 100%. Yeah. Right. And I think just to add to this, like as a leader, we have to do this in a posture of being non anxious. We Right? Like, it is scary to confront people. It's also scary not to confront people.

    [00:31:51] Scott Waters: And I think the best reflection of Christ is to be non anxious in that reflection. And so, coming at it, knowing what our stuff is, Where our boundaries need to be so that we can say in health like yeah Here's where I end and there's where you begin and this is what's required of you How's that gonna work for you?

    [00:32:15] Scott Waters: What can we do together to make it happen?

    [00:32:18] Whitney Owens: Yeah, that definitely gets better with time as well. Yeah an experience, you know The the more I remember at the beginning when someone would quit it felt like the worst thing ever You know, or having to talk to someone about putting in their notice. And now it's okay.

    [00:32:36] Whitney Owens: You know, it's a lot easier to say it and you're, you know, the last person that, well, not the last person, but the one before the last person that left, like what she did, I would have been so triggered by that two years ago. You know, but over time I've learned to like, let things go better. And I was like, I want you to have your best life.

    [00:32:53] Whitney Owens: And if that means not working here, go ahead, go do something else. And it's really happy for her. Good. Yeah. Yeah. She got pregnant with twins right after that. So I was like, well, you would have been leaving anyway. There you go. Yeah. We had two women get pregnant with twins that shared that office. I was like, Ooh, that's got some jumbo in there going on in that office

    [00:33:14] Scott Waters: in there.

    [00:33:15] Scott Waters: All right.

    [00:33:16] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Definitely. Great. All right. Well, um, anything else, Scott, that we didn't touch on that you want to make sure to mention about confrontation? Just

    [00:33:26] Scott Waters: start small. Yeah. Confrontation doesn't have to be about big things, but like you talked about like you grew in that by Practicing. And so start with small boundaries, small things that you can assert for yourself or your business, and you'll find it does get easier with time.

    [00:33:45] Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely. Well, Scott, you're a member of the wise practice membership community. So could you talk a little bit about what that is and why you love it so much?

    [00:33:55] Scott Waters: Yeah, I love the wise practice membership community because it is the support I need to run my business. And it's not just support, it's support with peers that have a similar vision and values.

    [00:34:10] Scott Waters: And it's not just business things like we can talk about faith, we can talk about life. Um, you know, my business accountability partner I've been with for five years since our first mastermind. And we just have this kinship around being, uh, men of faith, practice owners, and What that looks like to do life.

    [00:34:37] Scott Waters: And so that resource and that community that you're building through the wise practice community is really what, what keeps me grounded in a lot of ways. To to be in alignment and to stretch also through that. And so, yeah, monthly teaching is really helpful, even if it's not something I'm focused on, it's nice to just get that refresher.

    [00:35:03] Scott Waters: Um, and then just the good feedback and collaboration. Um, yeah, that's good.

    [00:35:09] Whitney Owens: Awesome. Well, I'm so glad you're part of the community and. I appreciate what you said about just the people you meet along the way. And I think about a mastermind group that I, even though mastermind groups are a little different than what we're talking about, but that was where I met some of my best friends, you know, years ago, and they've been with me on this long journey I've been on and so grateful for all of them.

    [00:35:30] Whitney Owens: And so, yeah, the wise practice community is It's such a beautiful thing because of that faith component. And then just the idea that every year we get together for the summit, you know, we actually be in person having a good time. And, uh, I just think that's the coolest.

    [00:35:45] Scott Waters: It's amazing. Right? Like last summit, I got to meet you in real life.

    [00:35:50] Scott Waters: It was fun after four years and just the, yeah, it's a, it's companionship. It's, it's a treat. Like, it's refreshing. I think we need more of that as business owners and therapists. It's just those moments to pause and refresh, get connected, maybe learn a few things. Definitely.

    [00:36:14] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Cool. Well, if there's someone listening that just wants to get in touch with you, hang out, talk, whatever, how do they get in touch with you?

    [00:36:22] Scott Waters: Yeah. Uh, you, me, email, phone call, even. Um, but, you know, uh, I'm on Instagram at Water Scott with only one s. Um, or you can visit the website, bc counseling.com. And happy to reach out and connect with you a consultation or just, uh, get to know you and hopefully see you and wise practice on it or in the groups.

    [00:36:51] Scott Waters: Yeah,

    [00:36:52] Whitney Owens: that's right. That's right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. Such an important topic that I'll be, uh, holding on to for a little bit and thinking about. Perfect

    [00:37:01] Scott Waters: and a pleasure.

    [00:37:24] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.

    [00:37:44] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.

James Marland
Previous

WP 77 | How to Transition from Solo to Group Practice Owner - Live Consulting with Liz Fava
Next

WP 75 | Authentic Leadership in Private Practice with Lisa Duez