WP74 | Letting Go and Training Team Members with Michelle Leyman

Written By James Marland

Embracing Letting Go and Leading with Faith: Insights from Whitney Owens on the Wise Practice Podcast

In a recent episode of the Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owens delivers an enriching conversation that delves deep into the aspects of letting go within a group practice and the enriching role faith plays in guiding one’s business. The session featured an insightful discussion with Michelle Leyman, a group practice owner whose journey from solo practice to leading a team of therapists epitomizes the blend of professional growth and spiritual guidance.

Leaning on Faith in Business

Whitney begins by sharing her journey of intertwining faith with professional consulting for therapy practices. Having observed the breadth of coaches available to aid in practice growth, Whitney’s approach stands out by making faith a cornerstone in the consulting process. “It's not just about giving you the steps and processes,” Whitney explains, “but also about being able to pray for you, listen to the Holy Spirit, and let God guide us in decision-making.”

This approach brings a distinctive element to business consulting, mirroring the desire among many therapists to integrate a Christian perspective into their therapy practices. The Wise Practice Consulting Community was highlighted as a beacon for this approach, offering a nexus for connection, teaching, and guidance rooted in faith.

The Art of Letting Go

The podcast conversation shifted towards a critical challenge many therapists face – letting go. With Michelle Leyman as the guest, insights were shared about transitioning roles from being at the forefront of every task to delegating and trusting others with essential responsibilities. Both Whitney and Michelle discuss the fears tied to this process, highlighting the need to focus on what unique contributions each can make and identifying tasks that can be effectively delegated.


Michelle Leyman shed light on her experience growing her group practice, My Therapy Connection, and the evolution of her role within it. From learning to delegate intake calls to developing staff, Michelle’s story is a testament to finding balance between personal involvement and empowering others.

Nurturing Growth Through Connection

A pivotal part of the discussion centered on the significance of community, particularly within the Wise Practice Membership Community. Both Whitney and Michelle emphasized the value of support and connection among faith-based practice owners. The community not only serves as a network for professional development but also as a space for forming lasting friendships and sharing the journey with like-minded individuals.

Conclusion

The episode beautifully encapsulated the essence of letting go in business, the transformative power of faith in professional settings, and the invaluable benefit of community support. Whitney Owens, through the Wise Practice Podcast, extends an invitation to all looking for a blend of business acumen and spiritual guidance in growing their practice. The wisdom shared between Whitney and Michelle offers a beacon of hope and direction for therapists navigating the complexities of practice ownership with faith as their compass.

Whether you are at the start of your practice journey or looking to scale new heights, the insights from this episode underscore the strength found in faith-driven consultation, the freedom in delegating, and the power of supportive communities.

What is Alma, and How Can It Help You?

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How Can Guto Hep Save Time with Payroll Processing?

Gusto is an excellent payroll processing option for therapist group practice owners due to its intuitive interface and comprehensive support. It simplifies the complex task of managing payroll, taxes, and employee benefits, which is particularly beneficial for practices with multi-state employees. Gusto’s paperless onboarding streamlines the hiring process, and its user-friendly software makes it easy for administrative staff to run payroll efficiently. Additionally, Gusto’s responsive phone support ensures that questions or issues are promptly addressed, allowing therapists to focus more on their clients and less on administrative tasks. If you sign up using this link, you will get a $100 sign-on bonus! 

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Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio.

  • WP 74

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    [00:01:57] Whitney Owens: Hello friends, it's Whitney Owens here with the Wise Practice Podcast. I appreciate all of you taking the time to listen to me and let me into your hearts and your ears today. So I was thinking about what I'd like to kind of share in this intro before we jump into this episode with Michelle Lehman.

    [00:02:13] Whitney Owens: We're going to talk with her. She's a group practice owner and we talk kind of about letting go of things within your practice, which is really hard for us as therapists and also Kind of automating and working on conversions in trainings for your intake coordinator, because that's a big part where we need to let go.

    [00:02:30] Whitney Owens: And I just started thinking about. This concept that I wanted to just throw out there to you as. I think it's so important in our own consulting. I remember. A long time ago, when I was growing my practice and. Wanting to get more faith based help when growing my business. And there are a lot of great coaches out there.

    [00:02:52] Whitney Owens: And I mean, great coaches can definitely provide you some help. And I had coaches along the way that have been so important in my practice growth. But a thing that I just love in the consulting that I get to do is making God a part of that process. And. Yeah, I can work with practice owners, and we could talk about our business, and I can give you the steps, the processes, all those things, but I also can pray for you, and I also can listen to the Holy Spirit and ask the Lord to direct us in what it is, because these decisions that we make in our practice.

    [00:03:26] Whitney Owens: We make them, you know, in a contemplative way, we make them with the guidance of God and we think through these things. And so I think that when it comes to your business consulting, just kind of like as therapy, you know, a lot of us want a Christian perspective and therapy. A lot of us became Christian therapists because that's what clients were looking for.

    [00:03:45] Whitney Owens: It's really refreshing to have that in your business. So that's the whole concept of the wise practice. Consulting community, like, to be able to offer a place of connection, but also teaching and consulting that not only helps your business grow and increases your profits, but also is a place where we.

    [00:04:03] Whitney Owens: Right. And we listen and we let the Holy Spirit direct us. And that is such a beautiful thing. I could think of so many times in meetings like mastermind groups where we prayed for somebody or times in my consulting, where I just kind of felt the nudge to lead someone in a different direction or to suggest something.

    [00:04:20] Whitney Owens: And it ended up being God's work, you know, and it's not. About me being some amazing person. It's about God doing good work in all of our lives. So I just wanted to throw that out there to you, that if you're looking for some business consulting that has that Holy spirit kind of combination as you're growing your practice, please reach out.

    [00:04:40] Whitney Owens: You can fill out a consulting application. We'll get on a call with you and we'll talk to you about what your needs are. And if it's not a good fit, we will let you know. I never want anyone to be spending a lot of time and money when it's not what's best for their practice, right? It's not good for me or them.

    [00:04:58] Whitney Owens: So make sure that you head over, um, to my website. It's wise practice consulting. com there. You can fill out an application and we'll be in touch with you, but there's nothing greater in our business than knowing the Holy spirit is with us and being directed and guided in that. So, and I'm, I'm really happy to introduce you to Michelle today.

    [00:05:18] Whitney Owens: And Michelle actually did consulting with me and she was such a pleasure to work with as not only Does she have a solid practice, but she's got this strong faith in the Lord and wants God to be a part of that process. And that was 1 of the reasons that we work together. And she's also a part of the membership community.

    [00:05:34] Whitney Owens: So, glad to introduce you to her. Um, that membership community is going to launch at the very end of April. So you're going to be hearing about that a little bit on the podcast over the next few weeks as I introduce you to some of the. Members of the community, because they are freaking awesome, so I'm glad to be having them on the podcast.

    [00:05:51] Whitney Owens: And so we're going to jump into this episode about letting go of things in your practice and getting your intake specialists on

    [00:05:57] Whitney Owens: boarded and ready to convert those calls.

    Here

    [00:06:06] Whitney Owens: we are on the Wise Practice Podcast. I am thrilled because I'm talking to one of my favorite people ever, Michelle Lehman. Let me tell you a little bit about her and then we will get into the meat of this episode. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist in New Jersey and South Carolina, wife of 21 years, mother of three, and grandmother of one precious little boy.

    [00:06:29] Whitney Owens: Michelle left her job for working New Jersey's Division of Child and Protection and Oh, boy, permanency, 13 years as an investigator, child advocate and forensic interviewer to start her solo private practice in February 2020 and February 2021, Michelle launched her group practice, my therapy connection, which now houses 16 therapists and a life coach.

    [00:06:52] Whitney Owens: Girl, I have not learned my lesson to read those bios in advance.

    [00:06:56] Michelle Leyman: Hi, Whitney, so excited to be on your show. Finally,

    [00:07:00] Whitney Owens: I am too. I am too. And so just till I give the audience an idea of what our day is like. So, 1st of all. The internet is out at my office, all the offices out. So we're recording live from my bedroom.

    [00:07:15] Whitney Owens: So, you know, I've never done that before. So this is a first. So Michelle, I wouldn't allow everyone into my bedroom, but I'm allowing you here today.

    [00:07:24] Michelle Leyman: Yeah.

    [00:07:26] Whitney Owens: And I don't know if this happened for you, but Instagram and Facebook were out this morning.

    [00:07:33] Michelle Leyman: No, I didn't know that, but I'm not a huge social media person.

    [00:07:37] Michelle Leyman: So I'm not surprised that I don't know.

    [00:07:40] Whitney Owens: Well, you know me, I'm always on the Insta. So anyway, I had created like three reels, then it went out and then it came back two hours later. And then of course, what I did was create a reel. Yeah. I'm still

    [00:07:52] Michelle Leyman: waiting on my real lessons because I don't know how to do a reel.

    [00:07:55] Michelle Leyman: Oh, well, see,

    [00:07:56] Whitney Owens: we have to do that in person. There we go. Yeah, that's right. Maybe at the retreat, if we can make it all happen, we can do some reels. It's a lot of fun, especially when you're with your friends. It's yeah, it's excellent. So, anyway. Okay. So, today we are going to talk about the importance of letting go of things in your practice.

    [00:08:14] Whitney Owens: Michelle and I talked about lots of different things we would talk about. She's got an amazing practice, lots of experience. But when it came down to it, really, it's like we could talk about systems and processes, but you've got to learn to let go in your practice. If you're going to be able to do that.

    [00:08:29] Whitney Owens: So before we kind of jump into some ways of letting go, is there anything in your backstory I missed that you wanted to kind of update us on?

    [00:08:36] Michelle Leyman: Well, I was thinking when you were talking about, so we're actually, I'm at 20 staff now since the writing of that, whatever I gave you. So that's pretty good. It's.

    [00:08:47] Michelle Leyman: Um, but no, I'm happy to be put on the spot because I have letting go troubles. I ride the struggle bus with that. So, um, yeah, so let's do it.

    [00:09:00] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, you are definitely not alone. I think as therapists, business owners, we definitely have struggles, all of us with letting go of things in our practice. So I guess my first question for us to talk about is why do we need to let go of things in our practice?

    [00:09:16] Michelle Leyman: Well, are you asking me that question? So I know the right answer is I could, um, and the real answer is I could be spending my time with a particular topic we're going to talk about. I could be spending my time on bigger picture items. Instead of getting caught up in the day to day of things that are happening, you know, where, where we're struggling to let go, in this case, we're going to talk about the intake calls.

    [00:09:45] Michelle Leyman: Um, so I know I'm good at the intake calls and also my time can be spent. Um, there's probably more value in me doing bigger picture things for my practice.

    [00:09:57] Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think a good question to always ask ourselves is what is the only thing I can be doing, you know, that no one else can do because I need to make sure I'm focusing on that, you know, and what are the things I can delegate out?

    [00:10:11] Whitney Owens: Because that's how you're really going to level up. Right? But, but you probably relate to me on this. Sometimes other people can't do it like we do it. Right? I mean, this is our baby.

    [00:10:23] Michelle Leyman: Yeah. Yeah, and that's what we were, you know, that's what I just brought in a new intake coordinator. And so that's it's. It's a legitimate struggle for me right now to like, let the calls go, I'm still checking in.

    [00:10:37] Michelle Leyman: I'm still answering some of the calls. And I think this started for you kind of started our consulting work because I think I was talking to you and I told you I was still like a year ago was handling all the calls for the practice when we were at 16 therapists. And you said what? You're, you're still answering the phones for 16 people.

    [00:10:58] Michelle Leyman: What are you doing? I couldn't believe it. Yeah. So you helped me get out of that. And, um, you know, I did just hire someone new and I think she's going to be really good. But there's that, there's that learning curve and that, you know, and that's hard because obviously we want to convert the callers into clients.

    [00:11:17] Michelle Leyman: Um, you know, there's the pressure of, you know, the therapists want clients, they want, they want to work full time. And so I have the pressure of having to keep them working. Right. And, you know, making sure clients are getting what they want and being placed with the right therapist. And there's all that that goes into it.

    [00:11:35] Michelle Leyman: And of course, I already know how to do it. Well, so

    [00:11:39] Whitney Owens: I know, I know. And I empathize with you on that, that some task will come in front of me. And I think to myself, Well, by the time I teach somebody else how to do this task, I could have gotten it done and I could have gotten it done better. Right? Well, sometimes, um, but that's, that's never going to get the business moving forward.

    [00:11:58] Whitney Owens: That's always going to make it revolve around me, which exhausts me. It overwhelms me. And the truth be told, it's my own control issues that I want to hold that task. Right?

    [00:12:09] Michelle Leyman: Yes. Yes. Um, yes. I have control issues as well. So yeah,

    [00:12:15] Whitney Owens: so what are some of our challenges in letting go of things in our practice?

    [00:12:21] Whitney Owens: Why

    [00:12:21] Michelle Leyman: don't we do it more? So I think it, it boils down to fear based, right? Everything, you know, it's the, what ifs it's, you know, what if we don't get the clients? What if I can't keep, uh, this particular therapist full or get them full when I said I would fill them. Um, and I, and I'm in, you know, I'm not an insurance based practice.

    [00:12:41] Michelle Leyman: I'm a private, you know, cash based practice. So, um, you know, these therapists, like, we don't have, you know, the, the tons of referrals coming in, like, it's some of the insurance based practices, you know, you have that constant steady stream. So there's a lot of marketing and investment going into getting the clients.

    [00:12:58] Michelle Leyman: So when we get the calls. You know, there's that I have to get them converted. Right. Yeah. Um, and so for me, I think there's fear around, I think I have a lot of pressure around, you know, having, I think we're at like eight, 18 therapists having to keep them employed and working. Yeah,

    [00:13:18] Whitney Owens: definitely. And, you know, those.

    [00:13:21] Whitney Owens: Those people that are calling you have already spent a lot of money to just get them to call, you know, and so when you don't convert those calls, you really are wasting a lot of money. It's concerning. Um, and then the most important part is we're not getting people to help. They need. Yeah, that's why

    [00:13:36] Michelle Leyman: we're doing this.

    [00:13:37] Michelle Leyman: Yeah. And I think, um, for for us here. You know, I try to match the clients with, I think, the therapist that's the best fit for them, not necessarily who's next up in the order to get a, um, like, I know a lot of practices, you know, may have a rotation or something like that. We match based on, you know, certifications and trainings and personality and fit and what they're looking for.

    [00:14:01] Michelle Leyman: Um, and I think if you miss that mark too. Um, you end up having a bad match with therapist and that doesn't give you a successful outcome that you want either. Certainly.

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    [00:15:37] Whitney Owens: Yeah. All right. So let's use this as an example of letting go in our practice because I think this is the perfect example. And a lot of therapists struggle with this letting go of taking the calls in our practice.

    [00:15:49] Michelle Leyman: Okay. Let's do

    [00:15:50] Whitney Owens: it. Yeah. So why don't you kind of share what the struggle is currently and maybe we could kind of problem solve how to improve it with also letting go.

    [00:16:00] Michelle Leyman: Sure. So I was able to, so when I spoke with you, I guess it's been about a year ago initially when I was still answering the calls. Cause I, well, I let go.

    [00:16:09] Michelle Leyman: Yeah, it's been a little over a year now, August, I stopped taking calls. I hired a, you know, a VA company and, um, they like, My VA had experience, mental health experience, was already working for other practices doing the intake call. So there was a lot of, so it kind of helped me to let go there. Um, and then when I lost her recently, um, you know, she left, um, the practice and I decided to hire a full time local person, um, which literally was three weeks ago.

    [00:16:41] Michelle Leyman: Um, so, you know, finding. I think part of it is finding the time to adequately train her, and then obviously there's a learning curve she's going to experience between, you know, when she starts and getting to the conversion rates that I'm looking for. And so for me when I look at, you know, the conversion rates not being what they should be or what they were when I was doing it, it makes me want to kind of grab that back.

    [00:17:11] Whitney Owens: Sure, sure. Yeah, well, that's a very normal reaction to have to have, but I think you hit the nail on the head. It really comes down to, am I training this person well? Am I giving them the time and energy they need? And are they improving over time?

    [00:17:26] Michelle Leyman: Right. And that's where I need to have more patience in that process, right?

    [00:17:32] Michelle Leyman: So it's balancing that patience with the pressure of. Yeah. Having to fill the therapists, right? And having to get the clients in with the right person.

    [00:17:42] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So just for people that are listening, I, I know you, so I know the answer to this, but how do you know what your conversion rates are? What are you talking about when you say that?

    [00:17:52] Michelle Leyman: So we track, so we have a call log, um, and I use Google workspace. Um, so I have, I use Google sheets and we have a call log that we document every single call that comes in with the time, whether they. You know, um, contacted us via email for our website or a phone call. Um, and we track whether they booked or not what their presenting problem is.

    [00:18:17] Michelle Leyman: Um, and so that's kind of how we track that data. And so I track month per month, what our conversion rates are. Um, and I, you know, because, I'm paying very close attention right now. I can see them day by day and week to week. And because it's on the Google drive, I can see it live as it's happening.

    [00:18:36] Whitney Owens: Great.

    [00:18:36] Whitney Owens: I think that's great. You know, if you don't have the data to back up anything, you don't know what happened, so I'm glad that you have that. Okay. So when you look at your conversion rates, what are they typically

    [00:18:46] Michelle Leyman: for you when you answer? So when I answer the phones, they're typically around 80%.

    [00:18:52] Whitney Owens: That's great.

    [00:18:53] Whitney Owens: I mean, we see that most insurance based practices are 70 to 80 percent cash pay 30 to 50. so you're way over the bar for a private practice. So good job on that. Yeah, okay. And so where is your intake person currently? In the past maybe week.

    [00:19:11] Michelle Leyman: So, so keep in mind, she's been what she shouted me the first week, right?

    [00:19:16] Michelle Leyman: And so I was away at a training, um, last week. Um, and so I was unable to answer the phone. Um, and so when she took the call, it was her first week answering the calls. Um, we had 25 calls come in over a period of 6 days. And we had four converts, so I don't have the math is less than 20%. So of course, what did I do?

    [00:19:38] Michelle Leyman: I'm like, I'm going to take the calls and you know, when you can come into the office, um, you know, she's a hybrid hybrid position, so she works part time from home when you can come into the office, you can shadow me some more. Um, and then, you know, and then work life happens and I have clients to see, I have meetings to go to, things to do.

    [00:19:56] Michelle Leyman: So that training piece is really where I'm struggling to like, Get it to where it needs to be so we can figure out what's going on with her on the calls. And for her, I think it's too getting to know the therapist and getting to know the systems and simple practice and all that stuff too. Yeah.

    [00:20:13] Whitney Owens: So asking that question, the one thing you know, what is the one thing that's gonna make everything better for your practice?

    [00:20:23] Whitney Owens: Would you say it's getting your intake coordinator converting at at least 50% without your help? Oh yeah. With without a doubt. Yeah. Okay, so we definitely have clients to see meetings to do. And as a group practice owner, it is unreal. All the meetings we have and tasks that come our way. So, but this is a priority,

    [00:20:43] Michelle Leyman: right?

    [00:20:45] Michelle Leyman: Yeah, it's our bread and butter. Yes.

    [00:20:47] Whitney Owens: Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah, I mean, I contribute my success simply to answering the phone, you know, like, it's such a basic thing, but it really does make a difference. So, when you think about. The intake coordinator, have you listened to her calls yet? Like, sat there while she's

    [00:21:05] Michelle Leyman: on the phone.

    [00:21:06] Michelle Leyman: I've only listened to 1 now.

    [00:21:09] Whitney Owens: Okay. I would suggest that 1st. Oddly enough, I think we talked about this when you were doing some consulting with me. I was hiring an intake person at the same time. Yeah. And so what 1 thing that I've been doing that's been helpful is just when I have notes to write, or it could be anything just administratively.

    [00:21:28] Whitney Owens: I go sit in the office and listen to her on the phone. She doesn't like it. She's so intimidated. Here's the boss, you know, and I get that. But the only way I'm going to catch her mistakes. Is by hearing it like a form can show me some things for sure. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But I think really hearing the way they talk about insurance.

    [00:21:46] Whitney Owens: Or, like, for example, she was talking on the phone and I could just hear her hesitation about saying the fee. Like, I could hear her. Nervous to say, well, this is what this person's rate is. And then she went. Is that going to be okay for you? Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. You should assume it's okay. Don't give them an out.

    [00:22:07] Whitney Owens: Like, this is what the rate is, and I'm about to schedule you. If they don't want to get scheduled, they will let you know. But there's no way I would have known that if I hadn't been sitting there. So I do think there is some time commitment on our end, which is hard. But what

    [00:22:21] Michelle Leyman: would you say? You're like, what would you say?

    [00:22:24] Michelle Leyman: The good amount of time is right? Like, how much time did you spend training your intake

    [00:22:29] Whitney Owens: coordinator? Well, my office manager trained her, but I would say she gave her a full week of training every day all day. And then the next week she started taking calls with the office manager. Actually they share an office.

    [00:22:49] Whitney Owens: So she's constantly got somebody in there with her. Um, but she is doing excellent.

    [00:22:55] Michelle Leyman: Is she housed in your office all the time? Yes,

    [00:23:00] Whitney Owens: and I do think that helps. She gets to know the therapist. The therapist come in and talk with her. You know, you were mentioning that earlier getting to know them. She's met.

    [00:23:08] Whitney Owens: Everybody knows all their names what they do. She has tons of cheat sheets right in front of her while she's on the call. Um, so I think that's helping. But yeah, hearing her love has made a pretty big difference. Um, but let's go back to the, the tracking calls. When you go in and look at the calls, are you looking at why the client isn't converting?

    [00:23:28] Whitney Owens: Do you track that?

    [00:23:30] Michelle Leyman: Um, so I haven't been looking at that. Um, recently I've asked, right. So a lot of what I see is in that particular week, there was a lot of, um, it was a lot of insurance. Um, it was, Um, not getting calls back. Um, so. Yeah, so we'll, we'll call, we'll call twice and then send an email if we have the email address.

    [00:23:56] Michelle Leyman: So it was a lot of, we didn't hear back. Um, and I don't know if it was just a fluke that week or what it was, um, but I would say between not getting calls back and the insurance issue, the fact that we don't take insurance. Um, so I did some coaching around when clients call and they say, You know, do you take insurance?

    [00:24:16] Michelle Leyman: I say, we don't take any insurance. What kind of insurance do you have? And that's my leading question to go into explaining, you know, do you happen to know if your insurance company is a PPO? Um, and I explained what a PPO is to the client. And then I explained the possible reimbursement rate. Some of the insurances, I know what they reimburse, how they reimburse, how you submit a super bill.

    [00:24:36] Michelle Leyman: And so. That for me when I'm taking calls that opens up a conversation and I'm more likely to book them even because they've just gotten to know me and I've taken my time, you know, even if it's with like, you know, their insurance company doesn't reimburse and maybe I'm putting them with an intern at a reduced fee.

    [00:24:54] Michelle Leyman: Um, but I, so I haven't been able to hear her. So I coached on this, just haven't been able to sit and listen to it.

    [00:25:03] Whitney Owens: Yeah, and maybe you could have a meeting with her where you say, Hey, if somebody calls and says, I want to use my tri care, my blue cross, what would you say? Let her say it to you to see if she can.

    That's

    [00:25:14] Michelle Leyman: a good idea. Yeah, or just like, have, you know, a role play.

    [00:25:18] Whitney Owens: That's right. That's right. Another thing we do when someone asks about insurance, because usually that's the first question. Yes. We'll say, you know, before we jump into that, we want to get to know you and hear what your concern is. And then we can discuss payment options if this is a good fit for you.

    [00:25:34] Whitney Owens: So we try to get away from that question because truly, because then my intake coordinator, when I told her that she was like, well, that's kind of manipulative. Like they just want to know. And I said, well, actually they don't know what they want. Clients have no idea. They don't know the difference between outpatient, inpatient, residential, eating disorder, substance, like they don't understand all that.

    [00:25:53] Whitney Owens: So, if anything, we want to at least help guide them. Now, we might get to the end of the call and they still say, hey, I want to use my insurance. That's fine. But at least we gave them some help when a lot of practices just hang up or they don't listen if you don't take

    [00:26:06] Michelle Leyman: their insurance. All right. And I think that's important in talking about the calls, like what you mentioned, rapport building, and it's using, you are using clinical skill in the call because you want to, whether you call it joining or rapport building, if the insurance question isn't asked first, like that's our first go to in the call, you know, is you have to build rapport and make the client feel safe and comfortable and, you know, just have a conversation with them, find out what's going on before you even get into insurance.

    [00:26:34] Michelle Leyman: Yeah.

    [00:26:35] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So you, the other thing you said was you're not getting back to people fast enough. Is this person answering phones live?

    [00:26:42] Michelle Leyman: So I don't know what happened with that particular week. Um, I know that your best chance of converting a client is answering a live call. I just know that from taking the calls.

    [00:26:52] Michelle Leyman: Um, so that particular week. I don't know if the friends were really busy. They were ringing at the same time and we do track times. I could probably go back and check the times, what times the calls were coming in, um, but, or they were coming in overnight. Like, a lot of times the calls or emails will come in overnight.

    [00:27:08] Michelle Leyman: And the majority of our, I think you asked the question, This of me during consulting is to pay attention. Are you getting more phone calls or emails? And I think we were getting more emails. So, you know, we're getting an email and then calling back and maybe the person's not answering.

    [00:27:25] Whitney Owens: Yeah, and, and that's great that you're tracking how they're reaching out because you want to.

    [00:27:31] Whitney Owens: Point people on your website to the way that converts best, right? And so if they're converting better for you. Make email hard to find on your website, you know, so that you're encouraging them to call. Yeah, yeah, I, I would go back and check those times. Especially since she's new, you know, check and see, is she answering the calls live?

    [00:27:53] Michelle Leyman: Yes, so during the day, obviously, if she's on, she's answering them live and she will answer them at night. Actually, I brought her on as a salary position and I explained to her, you know. Obviously, her job is to answer the phones, so most people are calling after work. I shouldn't even say that. That's not fair.

    [00:28:12] Michelle Leyman: They're not most people are calling after work. Many of the clients call after I would say most of our calls come in. Between probably 3 and 7 p. m.

    [00:28:22] Whitney Owens: Yeah, yeah, well, I would definitely track how many you're missing live because that'll be assigned to you that maybe you need a backup person. Um, in fact, that's, that's what we've had.

    [00:28:33] Whitney Owens: And, you know, I was really surprised Michelle, like, when I hired the intake specialist, I thought, oh, this person is going to be full time. This is all they're doing is answering calls. It's going to be fine. She can't get to all the calls. And so now the office manager who used to be the primary person, she's taking several calls a day to us backup.

    [00:28:51] Michelle Leyman: I mean, that's great for your practice, right? So I love to get there. We need backup. So

    [00:28:58] Whitney Owens: when I only had. Her, I was back up. Okay. So I only answered if I was available to do it, you know, and it's not something I wanted to be doing on a regular basis. So you could try that for yourself. Like you're just back up to her if she misses it and you're available.

    [00:29:17] Michelle Leyman: Yeah, I don't, I actually like taking the calls. You know, I'm not seeing many clients. I have four clients, um, that I see, you know, half of which are monthly, um, and two or every other week. Um, so I, I feel like it also keeps me in touch with that, um, that therapist in me, you know, that helper in me, because. I think we can get caught up a lot of business and the numbers, you know, the personnel and all the things.

    [00:29:49] Michelle Leyman: And it kind of causes us to miss why we're doing this in the first place. So I actually enjoy, there's a part of me that enjoys taking the calls. Now I don't want to be doing it full time all the time because I do get overwhelmed, but um, I, I do get enjoyment out of talking to people still.

    [00:30:08] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I agree.

    [00:30:10] Whitney Owens: It takes you back to why you're doing what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, she's really important. Well, has this been helpful for you thinking about some problem solving with this intake situation? Yeah,

    [00:30:21] Michelle Leyman: I think I'm going to Talk to her about coming back in right because she's hybrid. So she's working mostly from home and then I'll just have to make it Yeah,

    [00:30:33] Whitney Owens: and maybe maybe create like I want to see your conversion at this rate Until you could start working from home.

    [00:30:40] Whitney Owens: Oh yeah. That's

    [00:30:41] Michelle Leyman: not a bad idea either.

    [00:30:43] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, letting go is going to be hard, but important for you and

    [00:30:49] Michelle Leyman: your business. And so good. Right. Cause I think about that those months where I wasn't taking the calls when we had the VA, uh, we had a lot done

    [00:30:58] Whitney Owens: in that time. That's right. That's right. Well, Michelle, um, I know that you're a member of the wise practice community.

    [00:31:06] Whitney Owens: Can you talk a little bit about what that is and why you're a part of it?

    [00:31:11] Michelle Leyman: Sure. Um, so I actually love the wise practice community. I think as a practice owner, you know, we get, it can be very lonely. Um, well, any business owner, I think it can be very lonely. you know, lonely. And so being a part of like minded individuals or being in contact with like minded individuals, you know, people of faith, um, people are doing the same exact thing you're doing.

    [00:31:35] Michelle Leyman: They're trying to help people through a faith based lens, um, through therapy or coaching or whatever they're doing. Um, it's really created like, A great community and just my experiences. I've actually formed friendships. Um, you know, I think, you know, that, um, when I was at the training in Florida last week, you know, I reached out to another wise practice member and she came and stayed and we hung out at the hotel and she joined, she signed up for the training.

    [00:32:04] Michelle Leyman: And so I think without that, you know, I kind of be doing this on my own and you know, not really if I'm having a bad day at the office like no people that I can call to vent to and it's. You know, so it, it, it's less lonely. So that's what it's created for me. Um, you know, I, yes, it's a great network. And also I, what's important to me is friendships and building those relationships with people, you know, people you can go to.

    [00:32:33] Michelle Leyman: And I've, I've been that for other people too, as well. And also there's also the learning component of it, right. With, um, when you become a member and you go on Wednesdays, there's that. You know, you know, learning piece that you have, there's time set aside for getting the work done. So it's just helpful overall, you know, and I love the conferences.

    [00:32:55] Michelle Leyman: That's probably my favorite part.

    [00:32:57] Whitney Owens: No, yeah, Charlotte will be wonderful. Yeah, and I know, like, when we were working together, another big part for you was having access to all that paperwork within the community. Yeah, make copies of policies that I have in my practice or. Different procedures and being able to reuse those for your business.

    [00:33:14] Whitney Owens: So, but yeah, I would say most people when I pull the community or when I pulled the summit attendees last year, number one reason for coming was connecting with other faith based practice owners. It's a lonely world and those relationships are so vital to us helping one another in our, in our calling.

    [00:33:32] Michelle Leyman: Yes, yes, yes. And you have a great group. Like I've met like really great people and I think I'll have relationships with people. The paperwork is super helpful and like, right, my friendships and family and those, those are my core values. So that's, what's most important to me in my life. So the fact that I can have it at work is pretty cool.

    [00:33:53] Whitney Owens: Well, I'm honored to have you and Michelle leads 1 of our accountability groups. So within the last practice membership community, we have group every other Monday. It's the 1st and 3rd, Monday of the month, just for people in a similar phase of practice. So, Michelle, you lead the what? 10 plus therapists.

    [00:34:08] Whitney Owens: Larger group practice centers. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, so you get to hang out with Michelle every other week in the community. If you have a larger group practice. Um. But girl, it's just been wonderful. I always love hanging out with you. Is there anything else that you wanted to ask or throw in here before we close

    [00:34:24] Michelle Leyman: out?

    [00:34:25] Michelle Leyman: No, just thanks to you and everything you've done for me and helped me. You've been that year too for me, you know, when you're, when I'm having a day, it's, it's

    [00:34:33] Whitney Owens: definitely my honor and pleasure to work with you, um, and to be able to hang out with you today. And so. Michelle, if somebody's listening and they're like, man, she's so awesome.

    [00:34:42] Whitney Owens: I want to connect with her or maybe they want to get some coaching, um, how would they get in touch with

    [00:34:47] Michelle Leyman: you? Sure. So, um, you can always go through the website, my therapy connection. com or just, um, you can reach out to me directly via email. It's a M Lehman at my therapy connection. com and Lehman is L E Y M A N.

    [00:35:03] Michelle Leyman: And yeah, reach out. I'd love to hear. I love making connections. So. Fantastic.

    [00:35:09] Whitney Owens: Well, thank you for taking the time to be on the show. And I look forward to hearing about all the success that comes with training your intake coordinator in

    [00:35:15] Michelle Leyman: the coming weeks. Thanks so much. And thanks for having me.​

    [00:35:38] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.

    [00:35:57] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.

    ​



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